Stagnation and innovation in RMN thinking

[Andrew Sivula]

I would like to note that the magnetic accelerators are still how missiles are shot from the tubes, and that they were just coming into use in the RMN during the Travis Long era (and then only the Casey had them)

snip for brevity sake

In the more early days of the RMN (the Travis Long era) magnetic drivers were used to accelerate missiles out of the tubes. Also in that era (and even more recently) kinetic weapons were used in defense in the form of point defense autocannons. The closest we get to a true kinetic energy weapon in the modern era is the counter missile. However, this relies on the countermissile's wedge intercepting the wedge of an incoming attack bird rather than a true kill.

[Michael Bonh]

I have been on an audible binge as of late and was listening to one of the LitRPG books and had an idea. I believe there was reference somewhere about a type of drive that might have worked similarly but I want to share this brain baby with you all.

What is instead of using just 2 (or 4) impeller wedges that give off massive amounts of energy you were able to build a drive for faster, nimble and maybe more stealthy ships that use many tiny (relative) wedges? Ones that are not just on two sides of a ship but surround the ship offering better control and not giving off as much of an impeller signature than what we see used on most war ships in the HV.

[Philip Culmer]

Whilst not operating in quite the same fashion, that might have some similarities in outcome to the spider drive.

[Michael Bonh]

Whilst not operating in quite the same fashion, that might have some similarities in outcome to the spider drive.

That is what I was trying to remember, the spider drive. But I wouldn't mind trying a brain storm to come up with a different version of this concept much like the GSN did with their compensators. Any one any ideas? I'll dig into it and make a post some time (hopefully) next month with my ideas and findings.

[John Fairbairn, GCE GACM]

My understanding of a 'spider drive' is that it uses some form of gravitational engineering to make use of contact with gravity waves generated by gravity-producing bodies in the space surrounding the ship. Since the gravity waves being used are produced by bodies other than the ship, they do not register on the standard gravity-wave detection instruments as they have been excluded from consideration by the detector's filters. The energy produced by the spider drive device in any specific instance of this method is so slight that it does not produce much in the way of measurable radiation from the ship. However, the aggregate of hundreds (thousands?) of such linkages provides motive power to the ship.

Conceptually, it would be like looking at a hundred-legged (thousand-legged?) spider moving inside a globular web. The spider reaches out with one leg and snags a web thread, pulling slightly against that to move itself. Then it does the same thing with a different leg, against an different thread. Each tug exerts only a tiny fraction of energy, but the aggregate energy expended is adequate to move the spider. For an external observer, suppose the web threads were so fine as to be invisible. Also assume that each thread is connected to a measurement device which has (like any such) a minimum amount of force required to cause it to register at all. The outside observer would see only that the spider was moving, not how. And the sensing devices would not register the movement because the individual devices were being tweaked at a level below their sensitivity.

Now let us postulate that the theoretical spider is very small - say the size of a grain of sand or less. A Human observer at a distance - say, 10 feet - might entirely miss its presence, unless looking directly at it in a very strong light. In the same way, Mr. Weber has postulated, such a ship would be lost against the background of the universe, unless one knew exactly for what to look and where. Only if it opened a channel of energy (such a a com link) and the observer was looking directly at the radiating link antenna would the observer 'see' it.

Brilliant.

If that description helps by stimulating some conjecture, I will feel satisfied.

[Michael Bonh]

That, sir, was brilliant and yes consider my intellectual appetite stimulated. I wonder would this type of tech could be weaponized and fitted on large (er) weapon systems, like platforms or pods?????

[John Fairbairn, GCE GACM]

That, sir, was brilliant and yes consider my intellectual appetite stimulated. I wonder would this type of tech could be weaponized and fitted on large (er) weapon systems, like platforms or pods?

By brilliant, I meant that Mr. Weber is so, not my summary. However ...

Your question speaks directly to where we are in the story line. Uncompromising Honor did not tie up this loose end. And recall, the entire working apparatus of the creators of the Spider Drive still is intact out on some uncharted planet. So the question is, who is going to develop a Spider Drive (weapon, communications, control, intel) platform, isn't it?

I would say Manticore ... if they can figure out what I postulated above and how to accomplish something like it.

Let's not forget that the combination of Admirals Hemphill and Foraker really has not been explored yet, either. They're a pair of pretty bright kids. I'm betting on them sitting down, looking at all the clues, figuring out how the Alignment did it, and then ... .

I will be quite interested to see if and where Mr. Weber takes this overall story next. He has said he has ended Honor's active participation and that now she is 'retired'. Still, she is a parent, and live parents always are around to answer their children's need for a sounding board. I do have to wonder about what he might be writing currently.

[Michael Bonh]

This page is one of the reasons I came to like this association. I get to use my IRL knowledge to explore (and maybe further) this fandom. That said;

I have been to a recent school for work where we discussed the cycle of tech in regards to war and the basic ability to destroy human life and infrastructure. A morbid topic I know but I have learned that there is a pattern to be found. Looking even at recent events (30-40 years) around the world you see an interesting switch from "hi-tech" to "low-tech" techniques used in combat. From wireless IDE triggers and simple tripwire triggers to High frequency radio to low powered wireless signals communications. I think what would be interesting is to see if this type of cycle is revisited by the dynamic duo in the R&D department. You see it early with the PODs, maybe we will see a "re-development" of some older weapon and shipboard systems.

[John Fairbairn, GCE GACM]

This page is one of the reasons I came to like this association. I get to use my IRL knowledge to explore (and maybe further) this fandom. That said;

I have been to a recent school for work where we discussed the cycle of tech in regards to war and the basic ability to destroy human life and infrastructure. A morbid topic I know but I have learned that there is a pattern to be found. Looking even at recent events (30-40 years) around the world you see an interesting switch from "hi-tech" to "low-tech" techniques used in combat. From wireless IDE triggers and simple tripwire triggers to High frequency radio to low powered wireless signals communications. I think what would be interesting is to see if this type of cycle is revisited by the dynamic duo in the R&D department. You see it early with the PODs, maybe we will see a "re-development" of some older weapon and shipboard systems.

Could be. And about your notation regarding high tech going back to low tech - Mostly that is people testing to see if the low tech use still is being monitored. IE: if we have voice and video cell phones, does anyone still monitor the freqs for CW communications? If not, until someone twigs to the resurgent use, it could be pretty secure. For instance, during Viet Nam there were a couple of instances of specific persons using the International Distress freq (500 kHz) to do intel data transfers. One person who did that wound up being photographed in an anti-aircraft gunner's seat ... in Hanoi ... .

[Michael Bonh]

I have been revisiting my posts on this forum and I believe your completely correct! I have missed that a lot of times its not that older is better but more that older is forgotten. I'm wondering as I have been building my paper copy collection of the Honorverse why the use of drone based tactics seemed to take so long to come around? why not build out a set of 2-3 recon drones that could make up an effective pod launched death trap?