TRMN

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  • Keelholder Question

  • Discuss various aspects of the Honorverse universe here. Please be mindful of what you post, as not everybody has read the same amount of books. DO NOT post Honorverse fan fiction here under ANY circumstances!
Discuss various aspects of the Honorverse universe here. Please be mindful of what you post, as not everybody has read the same amount of books. DO NOT post Honorverse fan fiction here under ANY circumstances!
 #14661  by Dale Imbleau
 Thu Jan 11, 2018 3:05 pm
I have been confused by the what defines a keel holder of a TRMN ship (Chapter). So I have a number of questions.

1. Is a keel holder a member only at start up of a chapter? Or is it any person that joins during the original shake down cruise (first 6 months)?

2. If a chapter upsizes/downsizes to another ship does everyone become keel holders of the new ship?

3. What happens if a chapter starts with a recycled ship?

This should help me answer questions when they are asked me by new members.
 #14663  by David Weiner
 Thu Jan 11, 2018 3:17 pm
Dale Imbleau wrote:
Thu Jan 11, 2018 3:05 pm
I have been confused by the what defines a keel holder of a TRMN ship (Chapter). So I have a number of questions.

1. Is a keel holder a member only at start up of a chapter? Or is it any person that joins during the original shake down cruise (first 6 months)?

2. If a chapter upsizes/downsizes to another ship does everyone become keel holders of the new ship?

3. What happens if a chapter starts with a recycled ship?

This should help me answer questions when they are asked me by new members.
This by no means anything other than my own opinion, 'kay? :)

1. I always interpreted this to be only those that were listed in the original commissioning order.

2. Yes, if it qualifies (see #3)

3. In my opinion, no. Keelplate Owners (that's what I've always heard it called) are only those crew present for the initial commissioning. If a ship comes out of mothballs and is recommissioned, than no, you're not a keelplate owner.
 #14668  by Chris Thompson, 3SL
 Thu Jan 11, 2018 4:27 pm
Only Original members of a new commission are Keel Plate owners.

The "Keel Plate" would be the commissioning certificate that BuShips sends out with a new commissioning, noted by the word "COMMISSIONED" on the certificate. Re-Commissions state "RECOMMISSIONED" on the certificate.

I hope this helps.
Zachary White liked this
 #16937  by Chester Beedle
 Thu Mar 08, 2018 9:59 pm
On the question of if a name is recycled, it would depend on why... mostly for role play purposes really.

If the ship was just put into mothballs, then it's still the same ship, just with a new crew.

If we were to say the ship was lost in battle, lost to accident, or even completely decommissioned and the new ship is there to keep the name alive... think of the USS Enterprise, the one that recently had it's keel laid will be I think the 4th ship of the name... then that crew would be keel plate owners.
James Jones, 10FCO and -1 others liked this
 #16946  by Zachary White
 Fri Mar 09, 2018 1:46 am
Chester Beedle wrote:
Thu Mar 08, 2018 9:59 pm
On the question of if a name is recycled, it would depend on why... mostly for role play purposes really.

If the ship was just put into mothballs, then it's still the same ship, just with a new crew.

If we were to say the ship was lost in battle, lost to accident, or even completely decommissioned and the new ship is there to keep the name alive... think of the USS Enterprise, the one that recently had it's keel laid will be I think the 4th ship of the name... then that crew would be keel plate owners.
That is true. In regards to TRMN tho, I don't think that we have run into that yet.

@Chris Thompson, D3SL that is an interesting prospect though - your thoughts?
 #16949  by James Sena
 Fri Mar 09, 2018 2:10 am
Zachary White wrote:
Fri Mar 09, 2018 1:46 am
Chester Beedle wrote:
Thu Mar 08, 2018 9:59 pm
On the question of if a name is recycled, it would depend on why... mostly for role play purposes really.

If the ship was just put into mothballs, then it's still the same ship, just with a new crew.

If we were to say the ship was lost in battle, lost to accident, or even completely decommissioned and the new ship is there to keep the name alive... think of the USS Enterprise, the one that recently had it's keel laid will be I think the 4th ship of the name... then that crew would be keel plate owners.
That is true. In regards to TRMN tho, I don't think that we have run into that yet.

@Chris Thompson, D3SL that is an interesting prospect though - your thoughts?
There are few enough opportunities for that scenario in the Org. You would just about have to have a chapter that was List of Honor either in TRMN or in the Books for that to happen. And we restrict Canon LoH names. Most of the non-LoH names I can think of went from Homer class BC to Agamemnon class BC to Medusa or Invictus class SDs - if someone wanted to try THAT project.

The Wikia doesn't list what class the BC version of HMS Intolerant was, but that is at least one possibility (BC then SD)
 #17399  by John Fairbairn, KCE, MP
 Mon Mar 26, 2018 3:42 am
Chester Beedle wrote:
Thu Mar 08, 2018 9:59 pm
If we were to say the ship was lost in battle, lost to accident, or even completely decommissioned and the new ship is there to keep the name alive... think of the USS Enterprise, the one that recently had it's keel laid will be I think the 4th ship of the name ...
Just a small note here - The name Enterprise has been applied to a rather more lengthy list of US ships than just four (like 10 to 13, depending on how you count them ...). See:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_s ... Enterprise
for the US ones, and for links to the British ones.
And of course, there's that odd one ... the space shuttle ...
:D
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 #17400  by John Fairbairn, KCE, MP
 Mon Mar 26, 2018 3:45 am
John Fairbairn, KCE wrote:
Mon Mar 26, 2018 3:42 am
Chester Beedle wrote:
Thu Mar 08, 2018 9:59 pm
If we were to say the ship was lost in battle, lost to accident, or even completely decommissioned and the new ship is there to keep the name alive... think of the USS Enterprise, the one that recently had it's keel laid will be I think the 4th ship of the name ...
Just a small note here - The name Enterprise has been applied to a rather more lengthy list of US ships than just four (like 10 to 13, depending on how you count them ...). See:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_s ... Enterprise
for the US ones, and for links to the British ones.
And of course, there's that odd one ... the space shuttle ...
:D
In fact, I believe that Star Trek TNG had a comment in one of its episodes:
"There has always been a ship named Enterprise!"
 #17410  by Philip Culmer
 Mon Mar 26, 2018 8:15 pm
And of course, there's that odd one ... the space shuttle
Apparently named after a campaign by Trekkies - who were shortchanged by it being used for a glide test vehicle rather than an orbiter - or so I heard.
 #17417  by John Fairbairn, KCE, MP
 Tue Mar 27, 2018 5:51 pm
Philip Culmer wrote:
Mon Mar 26, 2018 8:15 pm
And of course, there's that odd one ... the space shuttle
Apparently named after a campaign by Trekkies - who were shortchanged by it being used for a glide test vehicle rather than an orbiter - or so I heard.
Just to set the record straight, actually that was sort of true ... :oops:

From Wikipedia: Space Shuttle Enterprise (Orbiter Vehicle Designation: OV-101) was the first orbiter of the Space Shuttle system. Rolled out on September 17, 1976, it was built for NASA as part of the Space Shuttle program to perform atmospheric test flights after being launched from a modified Boeing 747. It was constructed without engines or a functional heat shield, and was therefore not capable of spaceflight. Construction began on Enterprise on June 4, 1974. It was originally planned to be named Constitution and unveiled on Constitution Day, September 17, 1976. Fans of Star Trek asked US President Gerald Ford, through a letter-writing campaign, to name the orbiter after the television show's fictional starship, USS Enterprise. White House advisors cited "hundreds of thousands of letters" (I wrote ten! :roll: ) from Trekkies, "one of the most dedicated constituencies in the country", as a reason for giving the shuttle the name. Although Ford did not publicly mention the campaign, the president said that he was "partial to the name" Enterprise, and directed NASA officials to change the name.

Although it was not built as space-worthy, it was intended that after its glide-landing trials were done, it would be refurbished and used as a space-worthy orbiter. However, multiple significant structural changes made during the building of Columbia meant that it was more costly to modify Enterprise than to build a new ship. Similarly, Enterprise was considered for refit to replace Challenger after the latter was destroyed, but Endeavour was built from structural spares instead.
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