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New / Updated Star Map of Honorverse available somewhere?

PostPosted:Fri Oct 19, 2018 9:24 am
by Oliver Kindzorra
Hello,

I'm looking for an updated star map of the Honorverse. The ones I found at the Internet are outdated / incomplete and do not reflect the story line. In particular I'm missing wormhole bridges like the one from Mesa to a star system near Beowulf (can't remeber the name right now) or from Torch to Darius as an example. Also I miss a lot of systems that are relevant during the whole last part of the storyline like the ones that are used to sparke riots and blame the Star Empire for it. And star systems from the anthologies and short stories like Prague are missing as well.

Anyone know if there is or will be an update Star Map of the Honorverse somewhere, because David tend to jump from one end to the other of the Honorverse during his stories and I find it very supportive to have a visual representation of the Honorverse Star Systems to follow him.

Thnaks for your help.

Re: New / Updated Star Map of Honorverse available somewhere?

PostPosted:Mon Oct 22, 2018 6:46 am
by Ben Loyola, CDR
I think they're unlikely to release an "updated" star map due to Plot Spoilers.

Re: New / Updated Star Map of Honorverse available somewhere?

PostPosted:Wed Oct 24, 2018 3:39 am
by John Fairbairn, KCE, MP
Ben Loyola, CDR wrote:
Mon Oct 22, 2018 6:46 am
I think they're unlikely to release an "updated" star map due to Plot Spoilers.
Hmm. Perhaps now that Uncompromising Honor has been released, this will happen. Maybe the 1st or 4th SLs would care to comment ...

Re: New / Updated Star Map of Honorverse available somewhere?

PostPosted:Thu Nov 01, 2018 9:32 am
by Colin Lloyd, D6SL
I recall a discussion about the maps on one of the Baen Free Radio hour episodes. I believe it may have been one that involved a bunch of BuNine.

The question then was along the lines of will there be 3D maps. The discussion centered on the fact that David didn't have 3D capability when he created the maps, and that some of the early distance/travel times were based on 2D representation.

I suspect the reason we don't have a decent up to date map is that there is no 3D version that works well enough that it matches all the early and late story elements.

Re: New / Updated Star Map of Honorverse available somewhere?

PostPosted:Sat Nov 03, 2018 5:46 pm
by John Fairbairn, KCE, MP
Colin Lloyd, D6SL wrote:
Thu Nov 01, 2018 9:32 am
I recall a discussion about the maps on one of the Baen Free Radio hour episodes. I believe it may have been one that involved a bunch of BuNine.

The question then was along the lines of will there be 3D maps. The discussion centered on the fact that David didn't have 3D capability when he created the maps, and that some of the early distance/travel times were based on 2D representation.

I suspect the reason we don't have a decent up to date map is that there is no 3D version that works well enough that it matches all the early and late story elements.
I'm gonna think about that for a bit.

I'm in the process of acquiring a 3-D printer. As I learn more about 3-D rendering and perspective, I'll see if I can find a good 3-D artwork program that will allow me to do a map that meets the requirements, and then submit it for approval ...

Re: New / Updated Star Map of Honorverse available somewhere?

PostPosted:Tue Nov 06, 2018 9:27 am
by Oliver Kindzorra
Well, it doesn't have to be 3D if that would be a problem. The maps in the books are 2D and sufficient enough. Also it is easier to print, so I would prefer 2D. But if it has to be 3D wouldn't Blender be sufficient enough to do the job?

Re: New / Updated Star Map of Honorverse available somewhere?

PostPosted:Tue Nov 06, 2018 3:42 pm
by Laura Lochen, 1SL
John Fairbairn, KCE, MP wrote:
Wed Oct 24, 2018 3:39 am
Ben Loyola, CDR wrote:
Mon Oct 22, 2018 6:46 am
I think they're unlikely to release an "updated" star map due to Plot Spoilers.
Hmm. Perhaps now that Uncompromising Honor has been released, this will happen. Maybe the 1st or 4th SLs would care to comment ...
I doubt any comment made by the 1SL or the 4SL would have any bearing on whether the author will be creating new maps. :) This would be more of a BuNine thing - they don't tell us this info. Though I don't see why someone couldn't try and present them for review. I couldn't guarantee that anyone would use them or approve them.

Re: New / Updated Star Map of Honorverse available somewhere?

PostPosted:Wed Nov 07, 2018 5:39 pm
by John Fairbairn, KCE, MP
Laura Lochen, D1SL wrote:
Tue Nov 06, 2018 3:42 pm
This would be more of a BuNine thing - they don't tell us this info. Though I don't see why someone couldn't try and present them for review. I couldn't guarantee that anyone would use them or approve them.
Understood. ;)

Re: New / Updated Star Map of Honorverse available somewhere?

PostPosted:Wed Nov 07, 2018 6:17 pm
by John Fairbairn, KCE, MP
Oliver Kindzorra wrote:
Tue Nov 06, 2018 9:27 am
Well, it doesn't have to be 3D if that would be a problem. The maps in the books are 2D and sufficient enough. Also it is easier to print, so I would prefer 2D. But if it has to be 3D wouldn't Blender be sufficient enough to do the job?
As I (literally) see it, the issue I have with the maps in the books is that they are 2-D. I find that distressing to my technologic sense. The one by Hunter Picard in At All Costs, for instance, makes everything look like it is laid out on a flat plane and gives no hint of how things look from the depth aspect. That makes it very difficult to imagine that someone could, for example, get directly from Haven to Silesia without having to swing wide to avoid pickets posted at Basilisk.

Another thing has long bothered me. I wonder what would happen to a starship that happened to cut into or through a wormhole from the side? Yes, yes, I know that the chances of that should be vanishingly slim, but what if ... ? Also, the impressions I get from the descriptions in the book are that the 'fold' in space that creates the possibility of a wormhole in the first place is both stabile and provides a 'straight line' of travel between the terminii. Is that the case or, as movies would have us believe, does the wormhole loop and twist?

The more I consider the prospect of N-space and wormholes, the more I feel pushed toward the concept of N-space being rather like the 'lava' blob in the old Lava Lamps. Something 'real', with four dimensions, but constantly shifting, splitting, rejoining, and otherwise changing shape (on a galactic scale and timeline, of course). In such a model, might the 'wormhole' be caused by 'sides' of the 'lava' appendages touching together? Could supposedly 'stabile' wormholes be caused by a localized 'impurity' in the surface of the space/time continuum touching both 'sides' of the blob appendages, causing them to 'stick' together without otherwise merging?

In this model, the blob of N-space is surrounded by '????' (void? nothingness? obivion?) Does that '????' also have shape, form, reality?

Och! My head hurts! :P

Re: New / Updated Star Map of Honorverse available somewhere?

PostPosted:Thu Nov 08, 2018 5:39 pm
by Oliver Kindzorra
John Fairbairn, KCE, MP wrote:
Wed Nov 07, 2018 6:17 pm
Oliver Kindzorra wrote:
Tue Nov 06, 2018 9:27 am
Well, it doesn't have to be 3D if that would be a problem. The maps in the books are 2D and sufficient enough. Also it is easier to print, so I would prefer 2D. But if it has to be 3D wouldn't Blender be sufficient enough to do the job?
As I (literally) see it, the issue I have with the maps in the books is that they are 2-D. I find that distressing to my technologic sense. The one by Hunter Picard in At All Costs, for instance, makes everything look like it is laid out on a flat plane and gives no hint of how things look from the depth aspect. That makes it very difficult to imagine that someone could, for example, get directly from Haven to Silesia without having to swing wide to avoid pickets posted at Basilisk.
3D requires technology and a way to present it. 2D doesn't and in printed form works even without electricity. But the real point is that there are missing parts, even if you do not consider newer developments in the story line of the newer books. As I mentioned there is the Mesa-Visigoth Junction which extends to the planet Ghatotkacha in the Gupta Sector. Missing from the start and plays a vital role in the story line. Beside that, where is the Gupta Sector anyway? And there are more Wormhole Bridges that are mentioned in the story, but not reflected in the map. And wormhole bridges are the "Interstates" in Honorverse. So I think they should be properly reflected if they are a part of the story line. Same happens with Star Systems. If Włocławek is a key system in the story line of a book, which by the way also happens to be the home of the Włocławek-Sarduchi wormhole bridge, and the baddies jump between systems to inflict chaos, shouldn't it be there in a map to help readers find out where different parts of the story happens? I think it should and that's why I asked. But it seems there isn't a new map of the Honorverse out now and will not be for some time. Especially if it would involve BuNine to get things done. No offense here intended, because most of the BuNine folks have RL tasks to look after. And if their RL tasks like mine they have enough work at hand to keep them busy for decades. But it would be really, really nice if they would accept a few more people to their group that can help them to get the things done that supports the Honorverse immersion enlarge like maps, the "House of ..." book series, an updated Shipbooks series based on the SITS Shipbooks or a HMS Fearless illustrated handbook similar to Mr. Scott's Guide to the Enterprise. As said, it would help people with the immersion that other SCI-Fi series like Star Trek or Star Wars offers and win new Honorverse fans and maybe future TRMN members. And some of the tasks mentioned are not that hard to achieve, because it sometimes is just recycling with a few new extras added like the Shipbook series. I know, I know we are a much smaller community and those other series are TV and/or Cinematic ones and we are only book based. But, I think it should be our aim to help those already "addicted" and those new to the Honorverse to experience a similar immersion. Or am I wrong here?