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  • Marksmanship Tracking Sheet (based on RMA-Standards as per AO 1803-03) v1.6

  • Report on marksmanship events your chapter has undertaken (pictures and/or videos are very much encouraged), or discuss various board or online games that you've played through the marksmanship program, or even would like to be considered to be added into the program.
Report on marksmanship events your chapter has undertaken (pictures and/or videos are very much encouraged), or discuss various board or online games that you've played through the marksmanship program, or even would like to be considered to be added into the program.
 #26443  by Nathan Niemi
 Tue Jan 08, 2019 7:16 am
M Romero, CO 3FLT wrote:
Fri Jan 04, 2019 12:49 am
Nathan Niemi wrote:
Thu Jan 03, 2019 10:48 pm

I have printed a few copies of the GameLog Sheet. How do I go about submitting them for Marksmanship qualifications. Since August, I have recruited (or helped recruit) 50 new members and a vast majority are people that I am either actively gaming with or encouraging to play together.

I have been keeping logs of the StarFinder campaign that I am running for my nephews and recently have been making notations on party games, LARP, board, video, and card games that I play with members.

I was told that Christopher Bayonet is the Range Master for my Fleet, but I need to know the preferred format, method, and frequency in which the logs should be submitted.

As I will likely be granted command of a Ship some time this year, I feel it prudent to be up to date on these things, I am already getting questions from my recruits.

Any assistance is greatly appreciated.

Honoring the Emperor in word and deed,

Nathan G. Niemi
Maat, IAN
Crewman, SMS Scharnhorst
While Captain Bayonet is still on hiatus (hopefully for not much longer), you can submit directly to me via co@3rdfleet.trmn.org, using whichever format is easiest for you. The new spreadsheet does make things easier, but as long as there's some sort of summary that tells me what each member qualifies for, you'd be good to go. My goal is to announce these for Third Fleet every month on the 10th, so it's easiest if you can get these in to me by the 8th.
Report submitted. Thank you again.

Nathan G. Niemi, QBM
Maat, IAN
Crewman, SMS Scharnhorst
 #36325  by Rowan Wagstaff-Weston
 Wed May 06, 2020 7:35 am
Good morning, Captain @Christopher Bayonet.

I have had marksmanship reports submitted to me using this sheet, and it appears to be giving an incorrect total for GSN awards. It's summing the points for all categories, rather than (as per the Marksmanship handbook) giving the highest category.
 #36329  by William Karnesky
 Wed May 06, 2020 1:00 pm
Rowan Wagstaff-Weston wrote:
Wed May 06, 2020 7:35 am
Good morning, Captain @Christopher Bayonet.

I have had marksmanship reports submitted to me using this sheet, and it appears to be giving an incorrect total for GSN awards. It's summing the points for all categories, rather than (as per the Marksmanship handbook) giving the highest category.
The marksmanship manual has had a few clarifications and changes since it's publication. In this case, this is the relevant modifying answer from Martin:
Martin Lessem, FLA wrote:
Tue Jan 28, 2020 2:34 pm
Chris Ballowe wrote:
Mon Nov 25, 2019 6:02 am
I am RMN. If I earn 300 credits in Grenade and 300 in Plasma Carbine, do I get to combine that to be 600 and wear high expert in pistol or do I need to earn all 600 credits in a single weapon?

I currently have Expert in RMN Rifle, do I have 200 credit in each of the areas that count as rifle for RMN, do they just as Rifle or should they be based on the original game which switched categories.....

Thank you.
In essence, if you are RMN or RMMC or GSN, the answer is yes. You combine the totals for everything that qualifies as Pistol for Pistol awards, and for Rifle the same.

For the RMA and CIvilians, they will also combine points for the *level* of the award, and then will choose the proper dangler to demonstrate which weapon they are proficient in.
 #36334  by David Bell
 Wed May 06, 2020 3:41 pm
William Karnesky wrote:
Wed May 06, 2020 1:00 pm
Rowan Wagstaff-Weston wrote:
Wed May 06, 2020 7:35 am
Good morning, Captain @Christopher Bayonet.

I have had marksmanship reports submitted to me using this sheet, and it appears to be giving an incorrect total for GSN awards. It's summing the points for all categories, rather than (as per the Marksmanship handbook) giving the highest category.
The marksmanship manual has had a few clarifications and changes since it's publication. In this case, this is the relevant modifying answer from Martin:
Martin Lessem, FLA wrote:
Tue Jan 28, 2020 2:34 pm
Chris Ballowe wrote:
Mon Nov 25, 2019 6:02 am
I am RMN. If I earn 300 credits in Grenade and 300 in Plasma Carbine, do I get to combine that to be 600 and wear high expert in pistol or do I need to earn all 600 credits in a single weapon?

I currently have Expert in RMN Rifle, do I have 200 credit in each of the areas that count as rifle for RMN, do they just as Rifle or should they be based on the original game which switched categories.....

Thank you.
In essence, if you are RMN or RMMC or GSN, the answer is yes. You combine the totals for everything that qualifies as Pistol for Pistol awards, and for Rifle the same.

For the RMA and CIvilians, they will also combine points for the *level* of the award, and then will choose the proper dangler to demonstrate which weapon they are proficient in.
The issue is with GSN on the spreadsheet it combines the points for Rifle and pistol whereas they should be counted as seperate
 #36336  by William Karnesky
 Wed May 06, 2020 4:54 pm
David Bell wrote:
Wed May 06, 2020 3:41 pm
The issue is with GSN on the spreadsheet it combines the points for Rifle and pistol whereas they should be counted as seperate
My understanding is that they are not separate. AO 1803-03 says (In Part)
http://wiki.trmn.org/wiki/index.php/Admiralty_Order_1803-03 wrote: What this means is that for a member of any service to qualify for a Marksmanship ribbon or badge, the RMA Marksmanship Program manual should be used when determining what games count for which ribbon. All awards earned through the marksmanship program will be for whatever award/ribbon is utilized by the earning member’s service of choice (RMN earns RMN Pistol or Rifle, GSN earns the GSN Marksmanship award, etc..)
This seems to indicate that there is only one award for the GSN. I believe it is further backed up by Martin's post in the Manual Questions topic:
Martin Lessem, FLA wrote:
Tue Jan 28, 2020 2:35 pm
Nathan T Brakefield wrote:
Mon Nov 25, 2019 6:46 am
As a Grayson, I have these standings:
Grenade 523
Disruptor 104
Flechette Gun 14
Pistol 117
Rifle 161
Grenade Launcher 114
Tribarrel 35
Plasma Carbine 218
Plasma Rifle 240

By the old standing I have 1526 hours of Marksmanship for High Expert.
Does it still work that way or am I now looking for another 77 hours of Grenade for High Expert?
Do I need to redo the math on all currently issued Marksmanship Awards or just any new ones?
As a Grayson, you would qualify for the Champion Shots Medal
I will, however, admit that I am not as well versed on the Grayson Marksmanship awards as I perhaps should be, so if you can give me any citations you are working off of I can look into it and try to get further clarification.
 #36341  by Rowan Wagstaff-Weston
 Thu May 07, 2020 8:16 am
William Karnesky wrote:
Wed May 06, 2020 4:54 pm
I will, however, admit that I am not as well versed on the Grayson Marksmanship awards as I perhaps should be, so if you can give me any citations you are working off of I can look into it and try to get further clarification.
The Grand Alliance Marksmanship Handbook (published after and therefore superceding AO1803-03) p.4 states:
Every member of TRMN can qualify in all the categories of the marksmanship program, but some divisions do not have a separate device for each of the categories. In these cases, the awards are grouped together under the devices the service does include, and the highest marksmanship level among the group is what is worn.

For example, a Royal Marine, Grayson Sailor, and Army Soldier are all qualified as marksmen in Pistol, experts in Flechette Gun, and high experts in Rifle. The army soldier would wear each device, since the army has devices for each weapon/category. The marine would wear the Rifle High Expert ribbon, along with the Expert Pistol ribbon since Flechette Gun is included under Pistol for RMMC personnel. The Grayson sailor would wear the Expert Marksman device, since the Grayson awards recognize only the highest marksmanship level, regardless of category/weapon.


Apart from the mistake in the example (the Grayson should be High Expert rather than Expert), the manual seems to be quite clearly stating that services which combine weapons for award purposes use only the highest qualification, rather than summing them - if this has changed, then an AO amending the manual would be appropriate.
 #36345  by William Karnesky
 Thu May 07, 2020 2:45 pm
Rowan Wagstaff-Weston wrote:
Thu May 07, 2020 8:16 am
Apart from the mistake in the example (the Grayson should be High Expert rather than Expert), the manual seems to be quite clearly stating that services which combine weapons for award purposes use only the highest qualification, rather than summing them - if this has changed, then an AO amending the manual would be appropriate.
I certainly agree that small discrepancies like this are an unnecessary point of confusion. Due to how recently the manual was published and how long it took to be published in the first place, I would not expect a new manual soon but I will bring this up with my superiors as a point that could be better clarified in some manner.

Until then, my official advice is to treat the answers from Martin in that manual questions thread as official and binding. Under that, Graysons only have three ranks in a single device[1], which is earned as a sum total of all Marksmanship credits[2][3]. You would still track credits in each category separately, just in case you decide to change branches sometime in the future[5].

I hope this helps.

In service,
William E Karnesky, KDE, OG, CBM
Lieutenant Commander, RMN
Deputy Staff Tactical Officer, Office of the FLA

[1] viewtopic.php?p=34497#p34497
[2] viewtopic.php?p=34498#p34498
[3] viewtopic.php?p=34499#p34499
[4] viewtopic.php?p=34501#p34501
 #36346  by Rowan Wagstaff-Weston
 Thu May 07, 2020 2:53 pm
William Karnesky wrote:
Thu May 07, 2020 2:45 pm
Until then, my official advice is to treat the answers from Martin in that manual questions thread as official and binding.
The problem is that it's not a small discrepancy or a clarification - it's a major change to the published manual. Clarifying a point that's poorly explained in the manual, or noting that a point of confusion is a typo? Page 2 of a thread hidden away in the backtrail of the General Announcements forum isn't the best place for that, but it's reasonable (as long as you don't mind answering the same questions again and again). But a major change that replaces a section of the manual with a different, directly contradictory section? That really needs to be at least an AO. Particularly as other posts from the FLA also change the way awards are handled for the RMA as well, without giving any details on how this change works (viewtopic.php?f=548&t=12201&start=20#p34498 states that RMA and Civilians also sum points across categories to determine their overall qualification)
 #36347  by William Karnesky
 Thu May 07, 2020 3:05 pm
Rowan Wagstaff-Weston wrote:
Thu May 07, 2020 2:53 pm
The problem is that it's not a small discrepancy or a clarification - it's a major change to the published manual. Clarifying a point that's poorly explained in the manual, or noting that a point of confusion is a typo? Page 2 of a thread hidden away in the backtrail of the General Announcements forum isn't the best place for that, but it's reasonable (as long as you don't mind answering the same questions again and again). But a major change that replaces a section of the manual with a different, directly contradictory section? That really needs to be at least an AO.
I agree that there should be a clarifying AO, and it is something I'll mention when I have the chance.
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