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  • Marksmanship Tracking Sheet (based on RMA-Standards as per AO 1803-03) v1.6

  • Report on marksmanship events your chapter has undertaken (pictures and/or videos are very much encouraged), or discuss various board or online games that you've played through the marksmanship program, or even would like to be considered to be added into the program.
Report on marksmanship events your chapter has undertaken (pictures and/or videos are very much encouraged), or discuss various board or online games that you've played through the marksmanship program, or even would like to be considered to be added into the program.
 #20903  by Tamera Tozer-Kilts
 Thu Jun 14, 2018 3:57 pm
Christopher Bayonet wrote:
Thu Jun 14, 2018 8:57 am
...snip... cummulative award is the Grayson Marksmanship award.
Tamera Tozer-Kilts wrote:….snip... aggregating correctly in the RMN/RMMC and Grayson sections. ...snip...
Then there is still an error, as Grayson does not appear to be aggregating.

Thank you for the explanation of the AO. It doesn't strike me as logical, thus I interpreted the lack of aggregation as on error.

But then, no one said AO's had to be logical. :D
 #20905  by Christopher Bayonet
 Thu Jun 14, 2018 6:05 pm
Erik Plossl wrote:
Thu Jun 14, 2018 2:28 pm
If there's anything I can do to be of assistance with getting this new version tested and whatnot, please let me know.
Right now I'm in the formatting process, and getting the AstroControl Stuff online in it (which should be by tonight) then I will pass it up to AstroControl and 1SL's Office for their final approval for Compliance and I will publish it at that point.

After that I will begin working on ver. 1.2x which will have Geocaching and Fitness Logging in there as well.
 #20906  by Christopher Bayonet
 Thu Jun 14, 2018 6:06 pm
Tamera Tozer-Kilts wrote:
Thu Jun 14, 2018 3:57 pm
Christopher Bayonet wrote:
Thu Jun 14, 2018 8:57 am
...snip... cummulative award is the Grayson Marksmanship award.
Tamera Tozer-Kilts wrote:….snip... aggregating correctly in the RMN/RMMC and Grayson sections. ...snip...
Then there is still an error, as Grayson does not appear to be aggregating.

Thank you for the explanation of the AO. It doesn't strike me as logical, thus I interpreted the lack of aggregation as on error.

But then, no one said AO's had to be logical. :D
The version that is circulating is obsolete and will not be getting updated. The new version will be coming this weekend, and has been coded from scratch ... from the ground up. None of the old code is in the new version.
 #20907  by Shel Tozer-Kilts
 Thu Jun 14, 2018 7:54 pm
Andrew Sivula wrote:
Thu Jun 14, 2018 5:36 am
Based on the AO you do not add the weapon specializations together to get the rmn weapon qualification, you take the highest one and use that one, that is why its listed as max not sum
That really seems counter-intuitive to the whole idea of making any games count towards RMN/RMMC marksmanship qualifications, as you STILL have to put in a gazillion hours at one single type of game to earn a ribbon, instead of all games that count for rifle under the RMN/RMMC equivalency . . . counting for rifle.

I was very excited about this change, as it seemed like it actually put marksmanship awards in reach for those of us who don't have as much time to spend gaming, but it really doesn't after all.
William Karnesky liked this
 #20908  by Christopher Bayonet
 Thu Jun 14, 2018 8:21 pm
Shel Tozer-Kilts wrote:
Andrew Sivula wrote:
Thu Jun 14, 2018 5:36 am
Based on the AO you do not add the weapon specializations together to get the rmn weapon qualification, you take the highest one and use that one, that is why its listed as max not sum
That really seems counter-intuitive to the whole idea of making any games count towards RMN/RMMC marksmanship qualifications, as you STILL have to put in a gazillion hours at one single type of game to earn a ribbon, instead of all games that count for rifle under the RMN/RMMC equivalency . . . counting for rifle.

I was very excited about this change, as it seemed like it actually put marksmanship awards in reach for those of us who don't have as much time to spend gaming, but it really doesn't after all.
It does not provide for an easier path... It provides for alternative paths.

You still must face your test without being given an easy option to achieve your goal. It is more attainable but you still need to put the work in for it.

Sent from my LGLS992 using Tapatalk

 #20919  by William Karnesky
 Fri Jun 15, 2018 1:26 am
Christopher Bayonet wrote:
Thu Jun 14, 2018 8:21 pm
Shel Tozer-Kilts wrote:
Andrew Sivula wrote:
Thu Jun 14, 2018 5:36 am
Based on the AO you do not add the weapon specializations together to get the rmn weapon qualification, you take the highest one and use that one, that is why its listed as max not sum
That really seems counter-intuitive to the whole idea of making any games count towards RMN/RMMC marksmanship qualifications, as you STILL have to put in a gazillion hours at one single type of game to earn a ribbon, instead of all games that count for rifle under the RMN/RMMC equivalency . . . counting for rifle.

I was very excited about this change, as it seemed like it actually put marksmanship awards in reach for those of us who don't have as much time to spend gaming, but it really doesn't after all.
It does not provide for an easier path... It provides for alternative paths.

You still must face your test without being given an easy option to achieve your goal. It is more attainable but you still need to put the work in for it.

Sent from my LGLS992 using Tapatalk
I don't think MSG Tozer-Kilts is trying to not put in the hours, just point out that under the new rules if you get together every week with your ship, but play a different Army category every week you earn your Rifle and Pistol ribbons much slower than someone who only plays once a month, but plays the same Army category every month.

That implementation is a bit counter to the purpose of widening the available games.
 #20937  by Christopher Bayonet
 Fri Jun 15, 2018 12:07 pm
William Karnesky wrote:
Fri Jun 15, 2018 1:26 am
Christopher Bayonet wrote:
Thu Jun 14, 2018 8:21 pm
Shel Tozer-Kilts wrote:
That really seems counter-intuitive to the whole idea of making any games count towards RMN/RMMC marksmanship qualifications, as you STILL have to put in a gazillion hours at one single type of game to earn a ribbon, instead of all games that count for rifle under the RMN/RMMC equivalency . . . counting for rifle.

I was very excited about this change, as it seemed like it actually put marksmanship awards in reach for those of us who don't have as much time to spend gaming, but it really doesn't after all.
It does not provide for an easier path... It provides for alternative paths.

You still must face your test without being given an easy option to achieve your goal. It is more attainable but you still need to put the work in for it.

Sent from my LGLS992 using Tapatalk
I don't think MSG Tozer-Kilts is trying to not put in the hours, just point out that under the new rules if you get together every week with your ship, but play a different Army category every week you earn your Rifle and Pistol ribbons much slower than someone who only plays once a month, but plays the same Army category every month.

That implementation is a bit counter to the purpose of widening the available games.
The thing to look at is ...

If you keep to the same category games that were permitted under the old rules, they would still count as either Rifle or Pistol. What is different is say you and members of your crew are video gamers - you can earn points towards a different path to your pistol and rifle ribbons. If you guys are LARP'ers or RPG's (even if you play different games in those categories) you have a path for that.

Plus with the modifiers you can earn the first tier of the award potentially in one or two games, it's all about activity, and how many are going to be involved. The more the better.

We have seen posts where people engage in a weekend long LARP game, with enough people you can earn Sharpshooter or Expert in this weekend event. What about a 24 to 48 hour lock-in board game or video game event? Maybe even getting together a MMORPG party of TRMN members where you run Dungeons/Raids for 24 hours as a marathon?

Basically the limitation to earning these awards is not so much that "it's counter-intuitive since we use a maximum" but it's that it is only limited by your resourcefulness and willingness to look in the new sets of rules to find a path that works for you.

What about the face that now even Geocaching as a "Sport or Sport-Like Activity" is now included so one could earn their DIsruptor and ergo their "RMN Pistol" Ribbon from doing this with at least two friends (which is actually a good idea to do - as it's company, and some geocaches are in the woods)??

Or what about on Road Trips to conventions, break out the Road Trip Bingo and earn your Disruptor as well. Maybe trade off drivers during the longer trips so everyone can play?

What about putting some tape over the Radio Display and playing "Name that Song" (which is a Great Party Game aka "Grenade" earning game) and even the driver can join in? Same goes with playing "I Spy".

I think that it is less restrictive with more areas to earn those points quickly, if you are willing to look at this program for what it is .. instead of what you think it should be.
 #20938  by Stephen Schonewolf
 Fri Jun 15, 2018 12:23 pm
I had misunderstood how the games would be counted as well. I need to go back and read the AO, but the impression I had was that more games would be counted (and I inferred that they must have all been lumped in a combined manner to pistol and rifle). I think that assumption had also been built in because in the last format (which I know is now obsolete) many types of games were combined into pistol or into rifle. This version is a lot better, with a category of games counting one way or another and without the need to have a pre-approved list of games.

I'm glad to have this explanation, because I'd really been head-scratching about how the spreadsheet was working. Now that I know that pistol and rifle are 'highest of certain categories (either/or) rather than the 'sum of certain categories' I'll be able to understand what's happening. I'll just need to go back to my ship and explain how the actual marksmanship is being counted, as well as encouraging people to play the same *kinds* of games together, rather than just a hodgepodge of any game at all.

For the record I'm not arguing about how it should be, just how I came to my mistaken conclusion. I'm glad to have the explanation.
 #20943  by Peter Gold
 Fri Jun 15, 2018 1:56 pm
Ok, odd question.
Now that system is sort of the same over all branches it's probably a good idea to keep count of all the categories until all are maxed out?
I'm thinking that if somebody shifts from navy to army the games played already as navy would end up counting towards the actual army awards. Rather than just getting army pistol based on navy pistol, they might have 3 or 4 army weapons that had counted towards navy pistol.

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