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Electronic implementation of tabletop games
PostPosted:Sun Jun 03, 2018 8:52 pm
by Kevin Smith
So I wanted to clarify this edge case. Where exactly does a traditional tabletop game transition to being a video game.
Electronic game aids: dice rollers, score keepers
Required electronic game components: X-Com: The Board Game, Clue VCR
Electronic communications: Play by Email, Play by Chat, Virtual Tabletops
Electronic implementations of tabletop games: Smallworld 2, Carcassone, Ticket to Ride, Scrabble, Magic the Gathering, etc have electronic implementations that have the exact same rules and gameplay as the tabletop game.
Electronic implementations of tabletop game with gameplay changes: the recently released Battletech game
Electronic implementations of tabletop games that don't exist at actual tabletop games: Hearthstone
Now Battletech and Hearthstone seem to me to be fairly solidly on the side of being video games and playing Ticket to Ride with a score keeper app seems solidly still a tabletop board game. The others I could see being argued either way.
Re: Electronic implementation of tabletop games
PostPosted:Mon Jun 04, 2018 9:37 pm
by Erik Plossl
It's worth noting that TtR is also implemented in an electronic format whereby you can play against other players not at your specific location. Again, however, it still makes use of the same rules as standard tabletop TtR.
Re: Electronic implementation of tabletop games
PostPosted:Tue Jun 05, 2018 12:03 am
by Brad Lee
Paging @Jeffrey A. Webb
Re: Electronic implementation of tabletop games
PostPosted:Tue Jun 12, 2018 9:40 pm
by Joe Greene
Classically I have defined it as such: a game may exist in both forms
'table top' applies wherein the gameplay and rules are managed and administered by humans regardless of electronic aides (die rollers, email,chat or newsgroup communications etc)
'electronic' aplies wherein the computer or electronic device is aware of and mechanically enforcing the rules of the game independently.
This can be blurred somewhat when you have an electronic game such as Artemis or Empty Epsilon where the GM can bend or break the rules, but the electronics and software are still enforcing the rules by default, they merely offer an option for a human to perform actions which modify the parameters not flat change the rules
Re: Electronic implementation of tabletop games
PostPosted:Wed Jun 13, 2018 3:48 pm
by Jeffrey A. Webb
I posted a reply to this, and it's gone. Huh.
So, the spirit of the rules is that full electronic implementations of games go under the video game cartegories- Plasma Carbine and Plasma Rifle. Other games with an electronic aid go under their normal headings. Games like Dark Tower and Stop Thief! require electronic aids to play- the tower or the Crime Computer, but they are essentially board games and therefore go under the proper board game category. If you use an app to help track your D&D character or BattleMech sheet or roll dice for you, that does not alter the basic nature of the game. A new implementation of the game in electronic format, however, does. So tabletop Battletech is distinct from the Battletech video game from Harebrained Schemes. MegaMek, a rule-for-rule translation of Battletech for the PC, would count as Plasma Rifle just as Axis & Allies on the XBox would, they are video game adaptations of board games and are as such unplayable without a console or computer and there is no physical board components involved.
The important thing is consistency. Once you've made a determination how YOUR unit records a game, record it the same way every time. Hopefully soon the clarified and expanded rules will get published by the PTB and all these questions will be cleared up.
Re: Electronic implementation of tabletop games
PostPosted:Wed Jun 13, 2018 5:15 pm
by Christopher Bayonet
Jeffrey A. Webb wrote: ↑Wed Jun 13, 2018 3:48 pm
I posted a reply to this, and it's gone. Huh.
So, the spirit of the rules is that full electronic implementations of games go under the video game cartegories- Plasma Carbine and Plasma Rifle. Other games with an electronic aid go under their normal headings. Games like Dark Tower and Stop Thief! require electronic aids to play- the tower or the Crime Computer, but they are essentially board games and therefore go under the proper board game category. If you use an app to help track your D&D character or BattleMech sheet or roll dice for you, that does not alter the basic nature of the game. A new implementation of the game in electronic format, however, does. So tabletop Battletech is distinct from the Battletech video game from Harebrained Schemes. MegaMek, a rule-for-rule translation of Battletech for the PC, would count as Plasma Rifle just as Axis & Allies on the XBox would, they are video game adaptations of board games and are as such unplayable without a console or computer and there is no physical board components involved.
The important thing is consistency. Once you've made a determination how YOUR unit records a game, record it the same way every time. Hopefully soon the clarified and expanded rules will get published by the PTB and all these questions will be cleared up.
@Jeffrey A. Webb Since the FCO is the one issuing the awards, should it not be the Fleet CO's (or their designees) responsibility to determine how, so that it is consistent across that fleet?
Re: Electronic implementation of tabletop games
PostPosted:Sat Jun 16, 2018 3:15 am
by Rissa Haynes
Please correct me if I'm wrong. Per AO 1803-03, AD 09-1501 (some text abbreviated):
7. How do I count computer or mobile games?
In synchronous games in which TRMN members are plying together in real time, count them as you would a tabletop game. In asynchronous games, such as Star Wars Galaxy of Heroes, use the # of TRMN members in the clan & count 0.25 hrs of playtime for each day of play. This sounds like a small amnt, but for mobile games it really adds up over time. A Clan of 5 or more means 1 credit per day, ~30 credits per month, etc.
Games like Pokemon Go can be excellent social events. If a # of TRMN members get together to go Catch 'em All, count the hrs as you would for any tabletop game under the "synchronous gaming" explanation in the above para. The point is to be collaborating & cooperating w/ your fellow TRMN members. If that is happening, the game counts. If it is not happening... don't count it.
I do have a question for clarification, though. Per AD 09-1501, " Once a game is submitted and approved for a given category, points may be earned towards the achievement of the requisite award. At no time may a game/activity count towards multiple weapon types." Based on this and the previous comments, does that mean we as a unit can only choose one method of logging? For example, I'm getting some of my crewmates involved with Guild Wars 2. As an MMORPG, this can be logged as either synchronous or asynchronous. Synchronous lands it squarely as grenade launcher (tabletop RPG).
However, playing asynchronously via Guild/Clan could potentially land it under one of the plasma categories. Or would we still log it under grenade launcher with a different hourly calculation? If the asynchronous play does move it to a new category, why should we not receive that credit? Is that where the ship determination comes in, to choose which category it goes under regardless of play style?
Re: Electronic implementation of tabletop games
PostPosted:Fri Jun 22, 2018 2:48 pm
by Jeffrey A. Webb
Christopher Bayonet wrote: ↑Wed Jun 13, 2018 5:15 pm
@Jeffrey A. Webb Since the FCO is the one issuing the awards, should it not be the Fleet CO's (or their designees) responsibility to determine how, so that it is consistent across that fleet?
That's where I get confused. When this was an Army program, it was administrated at the unit level, and as Director of Army Marksmanship I had the authority to make these calls. Now that it's a Fleet-wide program, I'm not sure who has the authority to make these sorts of clarification, nor is it within my AO to determine who on the Navy side does the issuing.
So... yes, if the Navy issues certs and maintains records at the FCO level, then that's who would make that determination.
Re: Electronic implementation of tabletop games
PostPosted:Mon Jul 16, 2018 9:19 pm
by William Plasse
With regards to Pokemon Go - is that also .25 hours/day for credit? Did I see correctly that it increases per number of friends (the example given for other online games was a clan of 5 would earn a credit a day)?