TRMN

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  • Revised/Updated Offical Marksmanship Manual

  • Report on marksmanship events your chapter has undertaken (pictures and/or videos are very much encouraged), or discuss various board or online games that you've played through the marksmanship program, or even would like to be considered to be added into the program.
Report on marksmanship events your chapter has undertaken (pictures and/or videos are very much encouraged), or discuss various board or online games that you've played through the marksmanship program, or even would like to be considered to be added into the program.
 #28631  by Jana Otahal
 Wed Apr 03, 2019 1:32 am
Duane Kietzmann wrote:
Tue Apr 02, 2019 5:20 pm
Do we have an estimated date yet as to when the marksmanship manual will be coming out?
I ask as it has been another 4 months since the last post on this question.
Thank you.

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I asked higher up the chain - would love some information on it myself. :)
William Karnesky liked this
 #28835  by Duane Kietzmann
 Thu Apr 11, 2019 11:47 pm
Under the BuTrain forum they have announced that instead of releasing a pdf of their new manual they have released it in a wiki format. Well then this brings up another question, since the turnaround for publishing a PDF manual is so long and this is the reason for going to the wiki. Can we request that a wiki be posted for the marksmanship manual that we have been promised for over a year now and has been referred to by AO? Just asking respectfully.

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 #28942  by William Karnesky
 Wed Apr 17, 2019 7:38 pm
Duane Kietzmann wrote:
Thu Apr 11, 2019 11:47 pm
Under the BuTrain forum they have announced that instead of releasing a pdf of their new manual they have released it in a wiki format. Well then this brings up another question, since the turnaround for publishing a PDF manual is so long and this is the reason for going to the wiki. Can we request that a wiki be posted for the marksmanship manual that we have been promised for over a year now and has been referred to by AO? Just asking respectfully.
I am interested in this as well because a 1-year turn-around time is ridiculous. However, given the love for bureaucracy that many in this organization harbor I worry that if a lot of sections try to move over like this, BuComms will to start asking to make approvals to wiki updates.
 #28943  by Mike Timko 4SL / 6SL Staff
 Wed Apr 17, 2019 7:43 pm
Duane Kietzmann wrote:
Tue Apr 02, 2019 5:20 pm
Do we have an estimated date yet as to when the marksmanship manual will be coming out?
I ask as it has been another 4 months since the last post on this question.
It should be available to the membership soon.

It is in its final phase of review. We are making a few technical adjustments.

Sincerely,

Sir Michael J Timko, GCE, MC, CR, SC, OG
Commodore, RMN
Deputy Space Lord, BuComm
 #28948  by Doss Buckalew, D3SL
 Wed Apr 17, 2019 8:27 pm
William Karnesky wrote:
Wed Apr 17, 2019 7:38 pm
I am interested in this as well because a 1-year turn-around time is ridiculous. However, given the love for bureaucracy that many in this organization harbor I worry that if a lot of sections try to move over like this, BuComms will to start asking to make approvals to wiki updates.
I see this sentiment expressed all too often: "the love for bureaucracy that many in this organization harbor". I don't think we have terribly many people in this organization who "harbor" a "love for bureaucracy".

What we do have is approaching 6,000 members and a mandate to represent David Weber's work within parameters set by him and BuNine in order to protect copyrights and present his/their work in a professional manner. This necessitates - NECESSITATES - that controls be in place to ensure what we in TRMN produce meets the expectations of David Weber and BuNine.

What we do have is an all-volunteer group of people who also have spouses, careers, friends, and all of the other things that real life throws at us that comes before generating work for this org.

What we do have is a chronic shortage of volunteers in sufficient number to allow work to be completed more quickly while also adhering to the standards set for our work.

You feel that a 1-year turnaround time is "ridiculous". I have no doubt that the people working on this project feel the same way. I'm sure they would love to have had this out months ago. I'm also sure that those same people are trying to fill multiple roles in the org trying to keep other things moving.

Want to speed things up? Then raise your hand and provide your experience and expertise beyond your ship.
 #28949  by Jana Otahal
 Wed Apr 17, 2019 8:45 pm
Mike Timko 4SL / 6SL Staff wrote:
Wed Apr 17, 2019 7:43 pm
It should be available to the membership soon.

It is in its final phase of review. We are making a few technical adjustments.

Sincerely,

Sir Michael J Timko, GCE, MC, CR, SC, OG
Commodore, RMN
Deputy Space Lord, BuComm
Commodore Timko,

Would it be possible to get a hold of the work in progress? I thought having another pair of eyes to look it over, and perhaps provide some commentary/feedback could be helpful. If that'd be desirable, send me an e-mail, please! :)
William Karnesky liked this
 #28950  by Mike Timko 4SL / 6SL Staff
 Wed Apr 17, 2019 9:15 pm
William Karnesky wrote:
Wed Apr 17, 2019 7:38 pm
I am interested in this as well because a 1-year turn-around time is ridiculous. However, given the love for bureaucracy that many in this organization harbor I worry that if a lot of sections try to move over like this, BuComms will to start asking to make approvals to wiki updates.
Before I became a Deputy Space Lord, I headed the BuComm Publications Department. One of the first things I did is post here in the Forums & on the relevant Facebook pages asking for volunteers to join the department. Some people stepped up. Those people are to commended as they work behind the scenes.

While not everyone knows InDesign, Photoshop, Illustrator & Acrobat, there are other ways to help. BuComm can use writers, proof readers and editors. These positions are highly necessary to get a publication from idea to concept to document ready for the design element of the publication team.

So as Doss said... step up.

If you want to see things move faster, then raise your hand and ask how can I help.

Sincerely,

Sir Michael J Timko, GCE, MC, CR, SC, OG
Commodore, RMN
Deputy Space Lord, BuComm
 #28956  by Mike Timko 4SL / 6SL Staff
 Thu Apr 18, 2019 5:46 am
Jana Otahal wrote:
Wed Apr 17, 2019 8:45 pm
Commodore Timko,

Would it be possible to get a hold of the work in progress? I thought having another pair of eyes to look it over, and perhaps provide some commentary/feedback could be helpful. If that'd be desirable, send me an e-mail, please! :)
Jana,

Unfortunately not.

Manuals cannot be released (to the public) until they are reviewed by the Space Lords & The Royal Council. During these reviews corrections are made to text & images (as necessary).

Once these reviews and corrections are made it’s then made available on the TRMN web site and noted here in the TRMN Forums that it is available to download.

I hope this helps to clarify the process.

Sincerely,

Sir Michael J Timko, GCE, MC, CR, SC, OG
Commodore, RMN
Deputy Space Lord, BuComm
 #28958  by William Karnesky
 Thu Apr 18, 2019 6:54 am
Doss Buckalew, D3SL wrote: What we do have is approaching 6,000 members and a mandate to represent David Weber's work within parameters set by him and BuNine in order to protect copyrights and present his/their work in a professional manner. This necessitates - NECESSITATES - that controls be in place to ensure what we in TRMN produce meets the expectations of David Weber and BuNine.
Mike Timko 4SL / 6SL Staff wrote: Manuals cannot be released (to the public) until they are reviewed by the Space Lords & The Royal Council. During these reviews corrections are made to text & images (as necessary).
With all due respect, those arguments don't exactly make sense. If all manuals need to be approved before the public can see it and fit various requirements that take a year to figure out, then why is publishing a manual to the wiki (As BuTrain has now done) any different? If the wiki is different, then dear lord, why spend a year to design the PDF in the first place instead of publishing it to the wiki?

Further, why, in this information age do we use a closed waterfall system of design for a manual that just tells people how to categorize games and record how long they have played (and with who, and who won, etc)? Why not take advantage of the membership and release a draft (clearly marked as such, obviously) and allow the numbers of our club to effectively handle the clarifications by having thousands of eyes look at it and ask questions or spot typos and other such concerns? Organizations with a higher monetary interest have done that with things more critical to their function (the first one off the top of my head that does something similar is Green Ronin Publishing, which releases PDFs of its products shortly before they are sent to the printers so that fans of their work can spot errors, though I have seen similar things throughout the independent creator's world).

I fail to see how such drafts would in any way violate any responsibilities to be professional given best selling authors like Brandon Sanderson publicly release drafts at times, and David Weber's e-arcs are highly popular despite their lack of copyediting that the final version enjoys. If David Weber can release his next hit book in draft form, why can't a manual that tells members of a club how to record games they played also be released in a draft form?

And this closed system, where select few are granted access and there are numerous systems that take a year to get any hint of seeing the public version is just one example of why I do believe many enjoy the red tape as part of the time-honored military role-play.

As to your calls to step up outside my ship, I have already volunteered as a BuPlan Liason, but if you need eyes to review a draft and suggest edits, send a copy my way and I'll be happy to do so.
Vaclav Ujcik liked this
 #29128  by Vaclav Ujcik
 Sun Apr 28, 2019 7:16 pm
Mike Timko 4SL / 6SL Staff wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 5:46 am
Jana Otahal wrote:
Wed Apr 17, 2019 8:45 pm
Commodore Timko,

Would it be possible to get a hold of the work in progress? I thought having another pair of eyes to look it over, and perhaps provide some commentary/feedback could be helpful. If that'd be desirable, send me an e-mail, please! :)
Jana,

Unfortunately not.

Manuals cannot be released (to the public) until they are reviewed by the Space Lords & The Royal Council. During these reviews corrections are made to text & images (as necessary).

Once these reviews and corrections are made it’s then made available on the TRMN web site and noted here in the TRMN Forums that it is available to download.

I hope this helps to clarify the process.

Sincerely,

Sir Michael J Timko, GCE, MC, CR, SC, OG
Commodore, RMN
Deputy Space Lord, BuComm
Sir Michael, with all due respect, in the previous post you asked people to step up and volunteer. CDR Otahal does just that and your answer is "No, we can't do that". He didn't say anything about releasing to the public. He was doing exactly what you asked. I'm very confused (and I'm probably not the only one) as to the message you're trying to communicate.
In Honor of the Queen,
William Karnesky liked this

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